My interview with John Dufilho, also known as John Buffalo. John released his self-titled album in November of 2023 via State Fair Records.

Diya: Good afternoon, John. It’s lovely to see you. How are you doing on this fine May afternoon?

John: Great to see you. I’m good. I’m sweating a lot. I’m in Fort Worth right now. I live in Dallas, but I’m in Fort Worth and it’s hot. But I’m good. It’s good. Yeah.

Diya: Awesome. Let’s start from the beginning. I did some digging and learned that your artistic origin story stems from playing makeshift drums with Bongo Joe Coleman in your hometown of San Antonio, Texas, and then progressing into joining bands and writing music, eventually relocating to Dallas. Can you tell me a little bit more about your musical background and how it informs your artistic philosophy to this point?

John: Sure, sure. That’s cool–that you found the story about Bongo Joe. So he was a fixture downtown in San Antonio, and that’s where I grew up. And at one point I was really young and my parents had taken my family downtown for something and I heard this guy. He actually would whistle and beat on trash cans and he was kind of San Antonio famous downtown, and he’d always been there. And for some reason, like, I was drawn to it immediately and wanted to stop and listen. So my parents were like, okay. And then for some reason he’s like, “hey kid” and he motions for me to go play with him and hands me some drumsticks or something. And I’m beating on these trash cans and just thinking it was the best time of my entire life. I was probably 8 or 9, maybe younger than that, I don’t know. But it just immediately made this impression on me of like, this is the coolest thing I’ve ever experienced. From then on, I was obsessed with drums. I started finding things in the kitchen to beat on. And it’s interesting because by the time I ended up…Maybe it was, like, fourth grade–around then I got an actual drum set, but I’d been playing on things around the house so much that I kind of…I mean, I wouldn’t say I was good, but I definitely felt like I knew what to do with it. I was kind of already imitating things. So I grew up obsessed with drums and played drums for–gosh, I didn’t play guitar or write songs or do any of that until I was in my early 20s. So for a long time I was playing drums and obsessed with them and mostly informed with punk rock. I loved late 70s punk rock. I thought of it very much as freedom, like, there’s no rules. Like, to me, technical ability is great, but it’s, to me, secondary to ideas and creativity and that kind of thing. So that kind of helped me when I first started playing guitar and writing songs, because I thought, well, there’s no rules, so this is kind of wonderful, you know. I started playing drums in bands around San Antonio and when I was probably about 18, 17, and the bars figured I was old enough to be in them–and I, you know, I wasn’t–I was kind of getting away with something there too. Yeah.

Diya: That’s cool. I know a lot of this album is very mechanical, featuring a variety of synth and electronic drum sounds. I love the variety of grooves on this project, with layers of percussion and almost robotic vocal elements. Can you tell me a little bit about your creative process on John Buffalo, along with its sonic and emotional landscapes and how they show up through some of your songwriting, vocal and instrumental choices?

John: Sure. So this one was kind of a left turn unexpectedly for me. Like I said, I started as a drummer, ended up playing, playing guitar, writing songs. I had always been very informed by punk rock and DIY garage rock and 60s British Invasion kind of stuff, and had played in bands. That kind of thing. But what happened was, I was recovering from a surgery and it was a long recovery. I had a quintuple bypass, so I wasn’t allowed to pick up anything over five pounds for three months. And I was like, how? The only way I’m going to get through this is if I can make music. And now I can’t really play guitar, drums, or any of the things that I usually do. So immediately, I kind of went into this mode of like, drum machine, synthesizers. I’m going to, you know, go down this road. I had already been experimenting with that stuff a little bit before, so it was sort of like the obvious green light to, like, okay, here’s the direction I’m going to go in. This is what I’m going to do while I’m recovering–try to write some songs about my experience in the hospital and what it feels like to have made it out the other side. Luckily, I got to leave the hospital. So, yeah, it was really cool because it’s not really my world that I know about very much. I was going through and finding, you know, drum machine sounds that I loved and synthesizer sounds that appealed to me. The only rule I had for myself with the project was I didn’t want to buy any kind of new toys or gear that would make it sound really modern. I know so little about that world that I kind of didn’t want it to be whatever’s trendy right now. I didn’t want it to fall into that kind of trap of “what’s popular right now, I’ll emulate that” because I just thought that would probably not sit well with me in a few years. So I kind of just gravitated towards–you know, a lot of people say, “oh, it kind of sounds a bit 80s” or it sounds a bit lofi even. But I just kind of kept messing with it until I found sounds and things that made me happy. Really. And it was a fun process too. I’m glad you pick up on it because it started as just synth and drum machine, but then I ended up, you know, putting some percussion here and there. And definitely I was using an older–it’s called a MicroKorg. They have a vocoder on it and I was using that a lot, which is, you know, really like…I mean, it’s, like, a hundred dollar keyboard. It’s nothing fancy at all, but the vocoder on it I liked quite a bit. So I kept recording and seeing what it would sound like if I mixed this sort of robotic sounding vocal with my real vocals. And that sort of experiment was really fun.

Diya: Yeah, I love hearing about people using the vocoder–the Korg, the MicroKorg. I feel like that’s just kind of a weird piece of gear. And I love just hearing about people’s niche picks. That’s really cool.

John: Oh, it’s totally weird because you feel like you’re supposed to be singing into it, but really all you have to do is sort of speak the words and, you know, play the notes.I’m sure you know how they work, but I’d never really messed with one. And it’s fascinating because I kept wanting to sing the part and you don’t necessarily have to do that, you know? Yeah, it’s cool. They’re amazing. And it’s funny that it took me this long to kind of come around to experimenting with that kind of thing, but, you know, I’ve been on other paths.

Diya: We did previously touch on you being in some bands as a part of your creative history. How would you say the music on John Buffalo is influenced by your past involvement in projects that include–but aren’t limited to–The Death Ray Davies, The Apples in Stereo, and your score for the documentary 35,000 Watts: The Story of College Radio?

John: Alright, so I feel like about half of the songwriting on the new record is kind of the traditional thing that I’ve always done, which is a very sort of pop-structured, you know. Verse, chorus. I love really catchy melodies. Definitely not scared of that side of things. But the other half, I was trying to branch out. And so instead of writing the way I usually do on guitar, piano or whatever, where I would come up with chord sequences and try that melody around it, with this record, I’d start with a beat. And then there’s songs like “Who’s Got a Lighter?” and “I Got This Now”. There’s a song called “Move” that I would just start with a beat and just see kind of where it took me. And it was interesting, because to me, it ended up going in places I’d never tried, or it sounded much different and it was a bit less traditional. When I joined the Apples, they were one of my favorite bands ever. And fortunately, they were fans of The Death Ray Davies. So that’s how they ended up getting a hold of me and asking me if I wanted to play drums for them. I definitely learned a lot being in that band. Robert, the second singer, is to me, like a master of pop melody. And he’s just incredible. So I kind of learned a lot from him, but at the same time, I also was wanting to branch out and try things. And at first, when I did, actually, the two songs I named–”I Got This Now” and “Who’s Got a Lighter”–I didn’t think I was going to show them to anybody. I was not embarrassed of ‘em, but I thought, this is a little too something for me. And then the more I kind of listened to ‘em, I liked ‘em and thought, “Well, why not?” There’s no downside to this. And a bunch of the songs were written directly about the experience of the hospital and what that was like. There’s one that’s called December 22nd, which was the day of my surgery. And it’s all just about that, you know.

Diya: Yeah, some of the songs in this album do remind me of–as you said–80s new wave. More so industrial, actually, to me, with the drumbeats and the angular electronic soundscapes coupled with your vocals as well as the vocals from June, your daughter, on some tracks. The medical themes that chronicle your experiences with recovery and bypass surgery go hand in hand with the ways you had to adapt to making music, turning to more electronic instrumentation. I love how this album is simultaneously minimal, detailed, and expansive with this production. And I’d like to know about some of your main inspirations. So this could be, again, more artistic, such as other music, media, literature or film. Or it could be more thematic, like spiritual occurrences, religious epiphanies, your experience with recovery, etc.

John: Gotcha. Lyrically, I was, of course, more than affected by this near-death thing. So around the time I was really focusing in on this record, I was kind of just, you know, euphoric. I was elated that I was alive. Without getting, you know, myself back into that place–but it was just every sort of, like–the cliches they talk about, like every leaf and every, you know, like, it was all super hypersurreal at that point. Just, that I was around and I was getting to experience another day. And so there was that. I do a lot of music for background stuff for television, for movies, things like that. Like the documentary you’re talking about. I scored that. But even more so with the TV stuff, I’ll do sort of a lot of soundscape things. If you listen close, there’s lots of background-type sounds and sound effects and things that I was trying to create moods. There’s one called “Year One” that’s an instrumental and it’s just kind of based on the way I was feeling and how it felt to…It was like, I get another life. This is year one. This is day one of year one of my life. I was trying to express that. Yeah. So I guess that my past work with TV and soundscaping and that kind of thing played into it more than I thought it would. Other than that, oh, gosh, I don’t know. It just kind of came together like it did. There’s one song, the very last song on it was actually not from part of this project. There’s a movie–[turns to his daughter, June] pardon my language, June–called Shithouse, and it was an indie film by a guy named Cooper Raiff. And he asked me to do a song for it. This was a couple years ago. So I wrote a song called “Why R U Lost?” And it never appeared on any of my records or my band’s records. And I liked it enough that I decided to redo the song and do a drum machine synth version of it. So that’s the last song, which has nothing to do with any of the rest of the record or anything, but I just felt strongly enough about it as a song and thought it’d be a cool closer for the record. So that one’s sort of a weird standout on it, but I’m glad it’s there, you know?

Diya: Yeah! I am interested in the album artwork. I’m curious about the cover photo and if the building it was taken in front of has any significance.

John: Actually, yeah. After I was getting clearance from doctors to, like, you know–”Okay, things are looking good. You’re good.”–the first trip that I took, I’d never been to Mexico City. And so I went on a vacation with my wife and with June to Mexico City. And it was the very first day we got there, the very first moment we got a place to stay. And right across the street from the place we were staying was the building. And I was the one who took that photo. I was actually just so happy. I liked the building, and I thought it looked cool. And I was just excited about being in Mexico City and about the vacation. And I didn’t think about it. I just took out my phone. And every once in a while in my life–I’m not really a big selfie guy, I don’t do that–but every once in a while, when I’m feeling particularly, like, overwhelmingly happy, I’ll just take a photo of myself. And I did, in that moment, and I didn’t even look at it. I just kind of went on with the day and then later, I was looking at the photos and I was like, oh, that’s kind of interesting. I’m not even all the way in the photo. I got the building mostly, and the top of my head, but there was just something about it. Not only did I like the photo, but it also kind of signified that I had this new chapter.

Diya: That’s lovely.

John: Yeah.

Diya: I am so interested in the music videos in this album. I love the homespun quality of the video for “Accidents”–and I know your daughter June was part of the process for that.

John: [Pans his camera over to June, sitting nearby. She looks up, smiling.] Yeah! She sang on the song. I asked her if she wanted to help me with some video and we kind of talked about it and she said, “Well, I can draw some things on my iPad and it’d be fun to do sort of a little scene.” And the joke about the song “Accidents” is that if I actually wrote about all of the times I’ve been in the hospital and all the accidents that I’ve had, it would be a very long, you know, 20 verse, Bob Dylan type thing. But we just picked a few. I wrote the song and then she thought it would be funny to draw out a few of the scenes. So, yeah, when she finished it and we kind of put it together, I was just like, “oh man, this is perfect.” I also think that with my music–not just John Buffalo, but The Death Ray Davies, CLIFFS–there’s always been an element of homemadeness, for lack of a better way…I think that’s what you just called it. I kind of like music that’s that way, it feels more personal to me. I record and produce other people’s music now, and I’ve done plenty of records that aren’t that and sound bigger and more, whatever you want to call it. Produced. But for my own music, I don’t know why, but I always kind of gravitate towards having it be a bit more homemade sounding. It just feels right to me to do it that way. It feels more honest or it feels kind of more personal, like I said. I’m glad you like the video.

Diya: Yeah, me too. I get what you mean, though. It’s just closer to the heart, and the video for “I Got This Now” features trippy split screen editing and more tongue-in-cheek footage. Speaking of which, can you tell me a little bit more about your choices to include the more tongue-in-cheek footage in your music videos and how they function in tandem with the album’s themes?

John: I think that just kind of comes down to–I don’t always take myself too seriously with these things. And I’m not ever trying to come off as some cool rock star-type. I think I would have a problem trying to be that person, because I’m just not. Kind of the same as in the style of recording. I just sort of like to keep it honest and personal. And so I’m not afraid if I look a bit goofy or whatever it is, you know. So that’s why June actually helped me make that video as well. And so a lot of ideas and a lot of things I usually bounce off her. She and I have a very similar taste, and I trust her taste. She’s 13, but she’s already got a great eye. She already thankfully understands me and what I’m doing. So I’ll be like, “Do you like this? Do you like that?” She’s kind of helped me along lately with a lot of things like this, all of the photos and all of the art for this John Buffalo stuff, she took. And so it’s great because obviously, around her I’m as comfortable as I could possibly be, which makes it easy. I’ve done work with other people where I didn’t know them very well, and then I get a bit stiff and suddenly I’m trying to look cool or whatever. It doesn’t always come out…I’d rather just be natural.

Diya: Yeah, yeah. Let’s talk gear. What would you say was the most essential piece of gear to the particular sound of the album, John Buffalo?

John: Oh, interesting. So when I say drum machines, it’s interesting because that’s a simplification. What I did was I went around to a bunch of different drum machines–and I never programmed any beats or anything, what I would do is just find all of my favorite–I have this little library of all my favorite snare sounds and all my favorite kick sounds and hi hat sounds and, you know, you name it. And some of them come from old school drum machines. One of my favorites is an organ. It’s a 70s organ–it’s a Baldwin–and it’s called the Fun Machine. Have you ever heard of that?

Diya: I don’t believe I have.

John: So the Fun Machine is amazing. It’s this organ I’ve got, it lights up. It’s got the greatest sounds. In fact, I’ve made a whole instrumental record called the Fun Machine just using this thing. But it has a built-in drum machine. And so I sampled every sound on the built-in drum machine. So a lot of those are from the Fun Machine. And some of them are combinations of that drum machine mixed with other sounds that I found that I like. There’s even some timpani on some songs. So what I would do is kind of put those together and pick all my favorite sounds for things and mess with it a bit and go from there. The main synthesizer I use–I guess two of them–I’ve got an Arturia that I like. None of them were plug-in things. They were just physical, you know, actual synths that I’d plug in. I have two Korgs that I like. I have three different toy–basically Casios from the 80s that are like, you know, thirty dollar keyboards. But they have these weird sounds in them that I can’t find anywhere else. And they’re amazing. So I’ll kind of play something through this sound and then kind of mess with it a bit and you know, I’ll try delay or try reverb. Or sometimes they’re just perfect on their own. So a bunch of the sounds are actually just old beat up Casios that I sound along the way.

Diya: Yeah, and lastly, if you were stranded on a desert island and could only take three pieces of gear with you, what would they be and why?

John: Oh, well, I mean–I guess I’d have to consider the fact that there’s no electricity on the island. But either way it would absolutely be…Probably a floor tom would be one of them. Even when I’m playing a full kit, I’m always on that floor tom. So that’d be one. Another would be…I have a Gibson classical guitar that I write most of my songs on and play constantly. That’d be number two. So floor tom, classical guitar…For some reason I’ve never really been drawn to a traditional acoustic six string. I always like the classical ones. They’re a bit warmer and if you really bang on them with a power chord, it kind of sounds punk rock on them. They sort of distort in an interesting way as well. Just naturally. Let me think. Number three would be hard…Okay, so number three–I would take something I don’t know how to play so I could learn, so I guess number three would be something weird, maybe like a French horn.

Diya: Ooh, okay.

John: Something like that. Apparently I’d have, maybe, some time on my hands, so that’d be my choice.

Diya: Yeah. Thank you so much for chatting with me. I feel like I’ve learned a lot about just the inner workings of this album and where it came from–holistically–whether it be your recovery or the wonderment of coming to life after something like that.

John: Right on. Yeah, thanks. I’m glad that I’m here to talk about it and write about it and I’m glad you like it and that it, you know, resonated with you. That means a lot. Thank you.

Diya: Thank you!

John: Thanks for playing the songs.

Diya: Yeah! Absolutely.