My conversation with SPELLLING. Her album ‘Portrait of My Heart’ is out on the 28th of March via Sacred Bones Records.

Diya: Good afternoon SPELLLING, it’s lovely to see you. How are you doing on this beautiful March afternoon?

SPELLLING: Yeah, I’m doing great. Thanks for having me here. Yeah, I’m in Los Angeles. I’m in LA for the week, just doing some stuff out here, and I’m doing well. March is kind of a time of the year that I honestly struggle with, even though it’s, like, springtime and there’s good energy. It’s also kind of a hustle month and I just notice a lot of things needing to be renewed or maintained and just, you know, purging emotionally and physically and spiritually. So it’s an active time of the year and a lot of times I’m just like, I’m not ready to come out of hibernation. I’m still wanting to hold on to the peace of winter, but I’m looking forward to…The little moments of sunshine I’ve been getting have been really good for my skin and for my health. I’m just, like, trying to look forward to the later spring and tour and all of that, so…

Diya: Absolutely. And we will touch on tour later, where I’m going to ask you a bit more about some cool venues and whatnot. But let’s start from the beginning. I did some digging and learned that you were a graduate of UC Berkeley’s MFA program in Art in 2019, and that you had released critically acclaimed music prior to that, like the album Pantheon of Me. I’d love to know more about before that. Can you tell me a little bit more about your musical background and how it informs your artistic philosophy to this point?

SPELLLING: Yeah. So prior to really committing to making music–I think when I really committed was… well…Putting out Pantheon of Me in 2017. So, like, the two years before that, I was experimenting. 2015 and 2016 were really experimental. I still was trying to find my bearings as far as my vocal presentation and all the basics I was teaching myself. And what got me to that point…I’ve always felt a connection with storytelling and with writing. I went, you know, to undergrad at Berkeley as well to get a degree in English literature. And it’s not like that was my big passion or anything. It just kind of was, like, the option that felt like I had the most potential with me not knowing what the heck I wanted for my future. So I went with that and it feels like it ended up being one moment among many that I think put me towards this path of ultimately being a songwriter and being a musician. But before then I wasn’t really making music at all, like most of my life. At Berkeley and undergrad, I started doing, like, writing club stuff and poetry groups and started experimenting with my hand with writing. And I’ve always loved writing. I was the type of kid that kept so many journals and scrapbooks and was really creative in that department. And so then I started using a loop pedal to make these sound poems and soundscapes and people were like, “you have a really good voice”,  and I never connected with that. I just never thought of it like….I thought I could hold a tune and I could sing well-ish, but not enough where it’s like “you’re going to make music” in that way. So getting some, you know, ego boost from friends and doing little shows and stuff sort of just set me off. And I started to do those sound poems and a lot of little house show–like basement show, punk show stuff–in Oakland. And people just were, like, gassing me up. Honestly, that’s what happened. And it felt cool to just be a part of that scene. And it inspired me to make more songs and I would put them on SoundCloud. And that led to Pantheon of Me.

Diya: Totally, and much of your past work has been experimental, spacious, fantastical, and genre expansive–and I can definitely see how that background in literature would play into that. I can see you leaning into rock and avant pop sensibilities with the singles that are currently out from Portrait of My Heart. And across releases, I can definitely hear your constant artistic shapeshifting, which is really exciting as a listener–especially as a listener who has been kind of in tune with your work for a few years now. Can you tell me about your creative process on Portrait of My Heart, along with its sonic and emotional landscapes, and how they show up through some of your songwriting, vocal, and instrumental choices?

SPELLLING: Sure. Yeah, This process for Portrait of My Heart…There was something about in contrast to The Turning Wheel that I thought things were simplifying. I thought, you know, for one, I’m not making it and releasing it during a pandemic, so it can’t get much harder than that. And then I thought the energy of the tracks–the rock influence [was] a little bit more aligning with this type of genre than usual. So, like, I felt like there was a sort of touchstone there as far as orienting the sound. I know it’s going to be guitar based. I know the songs aren’t going to be as long form. So there were things that I thought were going to be a lot simpler than when I was working on the turning wheel. But it still ended up being this really difficult process. Like it still ended up in its own way, and I think mostly to do with identity and confronting my own identity in a way that I hadn’t really done with previous albums. Like, it felt like I’m being a lot more vulnerable. The songs, the lyrics, the subjects are dealing with matters of the heart and intimacy, romance. And I think, in a really human way…I think with Turning Wheel and Pantheon and Mazy Fly, there’s, like, all romantic and fantastical elements, but it’s a little more abstract. And it’s thinking of, like, cosmic scale sort of ideas of love. And this album deals with just me and like my own real feelings and crushes and, you know, being devastated by having a broken heart and all that kind of stuff. And that was rough because it’s like–I hear the songs, you know, certain songs–trying to forge the lyrics and relive these experiences that I’m drawing from was very emotional. But it felt really cathartic to push through. And to me, doing the cover song–My Bloody Valentine’s “Sometimes”–was really like, whew. That song spoke to the ambiguity, I think, that makes romance so hard where it’s like, when you don’t know what’s next or what’s coming and you’re kind of just sort of in this state of yearning and uncertainty. So that song, doing the cover of it, put me in that mode. And I’m just like, oh, it felt so good to finish it. It felt like I could package that up and move on with my life. Kind of like, out of this era of the last couple years where I’ve been experiencing a lot of these, romantic highs and lows. So yeah.

Diya: Totally. And with your academic background in the arts and years of experience making avant-garde music, how would you say Portrait of My Heart is influenced by your past releases?

SPELLLING: I mean, I think sometimes I underestimate how freaky I’m still going to do things, you know? I’ll look at this album and I’m like, “yeah, it’s like a rock album”, but it’s really not. Like, it’s got all kinds of stuff sprinkled in and it’s still spell-ified, you know? Like, it’s really whimsical. Like, Destiny Arrives, I think, draws from more of the spirit of The Turning Wheel stuff. And it’s got that, like, avant edge to it. And it’s impossible for me to not put that in the music. If I sat down and tried to write a regular song…It’s just not going to happen. Yeah.

Diya: Definitely. And when I listen to your music, I’m definitely reminded of the avant-garde, dramatic vocal influences of artists like Kate Bush or Bjork. Whenever I play your music in mixes, I tend to sandwich it between artists like that because I feel like it just fits perfectly. And I also noticed some hymnal influences which I’ve read might be from your background with Catholic traditions, and I can definitely see gothic elements in your work as well, with the stunning smokier parts of your vocal range. And I love your vocal style and how it shapeshifts along with music you make, endlessly bending to sort of fit the nooks and crannies of any genre or sound you explore. I’d like to know, what were some of the main inspirations for Portrait of My Heart? And this could be other music, media, literature, film, spiritual occurrences, religious epiphanies, portals to alternate realities, et cetera.

SPELLLING: Yeah, thank you so much for the compliment about the shape shifting. It makes me happy to feel surprised by what I make. And that’s kind of always the sign that I’m on the right track. You know, like, if I sit down and I’m like, “try to make something”, I’m usually not going to like it. Like, it has to be sort of transmitted to me…Like a radio signal, something I pick up on. This exists outside of me. And now I’m just the vessel for it. And you know, it’s interesting you’re saying Kate Bush or Björk–there’s maybe, like, a venn diagram there as far as style or approach. I was in the car yesterday listening to Cibo Matto–I love their music–and it started shuffling other songs. And then it started playing an old, like…I was like, “why do I recognize this?” Oh my god, it’s like a jump scare. It was my song from Mazy Fly called “Dirty Desert Dreams”. And I haven’t listened to that song in forever because I don’t really go back and actively listen to old things. Like once it’s out of the release era, I kind of just don’t. And, you know, just perform them. But that one doesn’t ever really get performed. And people requested a lot–like “you should play ‘Dirty Desert Dreams’.” And so, hearing it alongside Cibo Matto’s stuff, kind of just like mixed in, I was reminded that that was a big influence at the time. And like, thinking about how that influence is still there–I’m still going back and listening to Cibo Matto and thinking about how the art rock core has always been a theme throughout what I make. And for Portrait of My Heart, I liked to listen to a lot of Muse, Smashing Pumpkins…What else…I went back and listened to some metalcore things that I was into in high school, like System of a Down.

Diya: Hell yeah.

SPELLLING: Yeah, and trying to just glean the things from that sound that I thought were super unique. Like, for System of a Down, like Serge–I feel like the way his operatic vocals just do this waterfall kind of thing where they layer over each other and it’s the circus kind of atmosphere. And he’s like a ringleader. And I’d just create this whole visual theater in my mind when I would listen to it. So I, you know, kind of bring some of that with the drama. And there’s so many, there’s so much…Blonde Redhead–also a big, huge influence as far as textures. I’m like, I want to make rock songs, but I want the textures to sound really prominent, and I think they do a great job of that all the time with how they mix in synths and the way that their drum sounds work. When I worked with the mixing engineer, I sent him a bunch of Blonde Redhead tracks that are, like, reference points for how I want stuff to sound. And then the pop sensibility–for sure, No Doubt. Like, that was the biggest one where in Return of Saturn, they have this reoccurring synth noise through almost all the songs that pops up. And I love how they did that. And I tried to kind of replicate it on my song “Waterfall”. You can hear in the background, like in the choruses, this synth that sounds a lot like the synth on “Ex-Girlfriend” or a few different ones on that album. Yeah.

Diya: Awesome, that’s really interesting. I wasn’t thinking about, like, the kind of alt rock influences when it came to System of a Down. That’s really interesting–especially the vocal influences. And I kind of see what you mean with the vocal layering, especially with a lot of your discography. It’s been very vocally adventurous and things like that. I love just how immersive it is. And I kind of see what you mean with the System of a Down comparison. I’m also interested in the album artwork for Portrait of My Heart–I’d love to know the story behind the photo and why it was chosen to represent this album, especially with a lot of your past work having kind of similarly–again–immersive, mystical and ethereal self-portrait type-photos.

SPELLLING: Yeah, I’m really, really happy with how that came together. This artist, he’s a photographer and artist based in Oakland. His name is Cinque, and he’s been a friend of mine just in the community for a long time, but he worked with this artist, Liv, and did album artwork for her. And I’m like, “whoa, this is so sensual”, and stuff that just kind of gives an impression of a feeling. That’s what I kind of always want to go for. It’s a portrait, but it more so feels like…Impressionistic. And [Cinque] did some stuff with Toro y Moi for his album art. And it’s also the same–like a lot of things implied. And I like leaving things open-ended and the visuals to be interpreted and abstract. So I asked him to shoot for me and it was a crazy experience. We shot it in my house and just kind of made this big black backdrop and it took forever. So like, I think we were all sort of reaching this point of getting delusional because we’ve been working for so long. And sometimes that breaks down the wall where it feels like you exit into this, I don’t know, state where it’s like, “Who knows?” Like, we’re letting go of the reins here. Like, whatever happens, happens. And the image came out way later in the shoot. And I love that it resembled an eye and also a heart itself. And, like, the chambers of a heart, you know, it just had that way–he used the prism to kind of like reflect it. And it’s a film photo, so it was really special. Film quality always ends up creating this extra layer of texture and noise that I like. And then on the back–the hand with the butterfly, we got that at the very end and I’m so happy we captured that. It was an idea at the last minute where I’m like, I want to portray something really soft and optimistic. And he had the idea to have this butterfly floating in [my] hand. And so, yeah, I just try to put these little symbols in there that I think represent…There’s the six of cups that’s in tarot, like, the cup is the suit of love. And the six of cups represents just, like, romance and love. And so we threw that in there.

Diya: Wow, yeah, that’s really interesting, especially with the tarot. I’m also interested in the music videos for Portrait of My Heart. The video for the title track is intimate and reflective while carrying the same fantastical quality that reappears throughout your discography with the ominous portal swirling on the bedroom floor. And then the music video for “Destiny Arrives” is more isolated and features you calling out above the waters of an unearthly, liminal world. Across the music videos for this album, I noticed a common theme of introspection coupled with theatrical and supernatural aesthetics. Can you tell me a little bit more about the choices to include these visuals in your music videos and how they function in tandem with your album’s themes?

SPELLLING: Yeah, it kind of just defines my whole MO as a person. The tensions that I grapple with often are this tendency and natural state of isolation and finding a lot of comfort and solitude, and the sensation that I can’t shake of feeling like an outsider to the world or even in things that I’m a part of, like as far as the music industry or my friendships and relationships. Still kind of always dealing with this sense of having one foot in or out or feeling alienated. And then the supernatural qualities tend to reflect that. I think the opposite side of that where I feel like the pursuit of just being a person, like, being in trapped in a body–those sorts of the feelings of, like, yeah, I feel uncomfortable or just the tensions of being a woman and being a body and having those physical attributes that feel like sometimes they’re going against how I feel inside my head. And so those are things that I always express with the music and, and “Portrait of My Heart”, the music video. It’s kind of going into the sensation of having writer’s block or like having a creative block or obstacle that you’re stuck in, and the portal that I’m entering in is kind of like this opportunity to exit that state of conflict, like, inner creative conflict. And we wanted…“Destiny Arrives” almost feels kind of like coming out the other side into another universe, maybe, where that portal was or is. It’s like they’re very different visually, but they’re still kind of kindred like you’re saying. Kindred concepts of entering another dimension to have this sense of self-reflection or, like, the central reflection.

Diya: Yeah, definitely. And you’re touring, so what are some of the venues and locations you look forward to playing at the most?

SPELLLING: I’m really excited for Chicago Lincoln Hall. That’ll be on my birthday, on May 13th. So that’ll be a fun way to celebrate my birthday and everything. I mean, there’s a few places I haven’t ever headlined, like Detroit. That’s going to be cool. I’m excited to go back to New Orleans. I just love the spooky energy out there–the gothic energy. Like, last year we toured to this kind of midway point that kind of revitalizes my energy. So I’m excited that’s happening again. New York is going to be awesome. There’s just so much to look forward to. And the Teragram. I’ve been spending a lot of time in LA over the last couple years, like every month, almost. So I’m stoked to like, play here. It’s been a long time, and the Teragram is a really cool room. So Los Angeles is definitely up there.

Diya: Totally. I’m hoping to make that show. I hope I can. We’ll see. Let’s talk gear. What would you say is the most essential piece of gear to the particular sound of Portrait of My Heart?

SPELLLING: You’d have to talk to Wyatt, who plays guitar in the band. We had experimented, we were dialing in guitar tones for a long time when we were recording and we had like a studio session for, like, a week in 2023. And I feel like I drove him crazy, just especially trying to get the guitar tones for Portrait of My Heart. We ended up doing kind of like a combo of things, but he used this beautiful vintage, pink guitar. I can’t remember. I’m not even like a gear person. So I’m going to ask him later what we ended up using. But it had this mind of its own. I love vintage stuff. I love stuff that has history or a story to it. It’s a 70s like beautiful baby pink guitar. And it kept falling out of tune, but it delivered this kind of twang to it that I was in love with and wanted to kind of carry over. I like things to feel not-so-perfect. So I was like, “I like that it’s kind of drifty and twangy.” And we kept it, and I think layered it with another guitar as well. And like, we use that on the song “Drain” also. So like, it was giving that grunge attitude and effect. It’s really, really cool in my opinion. And we use this weird pedal called “disnortion” on a lot of things. And we were cracking up over just the word “disnortion”, it was, like, so funny to us. And any time we were stuck on something not sounding right, we were like, “let’s hook it up to the disnortion”, like that’ll fix it.

Diya: Amazing.

SPELLLING: Yeah.

Diya: So for the last question, if you were stranded on a desert island–or perhaps that big pillar you stand on in that one music video we talked about–and could only take three pieces of gear with you, what would they be and why?

SPELLLING:
I–wow, that would be…I need something that I would want to have, like, I just bring the MicroKorg everywhere all the time because it’s my fave and it’s easy to get ideas out on it. So I would definitely have my MicroKorg synth. I use a sequencer that’s called a “Square Pyramid” and I can use that to program lots of layers of synth stuff. And then I would need…I guess I would need something…I could have my laptop with me. That way I can make little songs and record them on my little island to myself. Yeah.

Diya: Amazing. Thank you so much for chatting with me. This has been really wonderful–and it’s really wonderful to just learn about your process and your influences, especially as someone who’s been listening for quite a bit now, and I can’t wait to see where this goes.

SPELLLING:
Thank you so much. Thanks for all your questions–and yeah, hopefully see you at [The Teragram] or one of the shows.

Diya: Totally. Thank you.